Bill Ralston: Sky is the limit for TVNZ

[Apsattv]

From http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10479508&pnum=0


TVNZ boss Rick Ellis told the New Zealand Herald on Friday: "I'm confident that despite the morass [sic] of visual material circulating the planet, viewers and advertisers will continue to watch TVNZ's traditional channels and our two new ones, because they will trust us to screen what is uniquely important and of interest to New Zealanders."

Confirmation that he was 100 per cent wrong came on the same page of the paper in a story that pointed out TVNZ had lost the rights to screen the 2010 Winter Olympics and the 2012 Summer Olympics in London to Prime and Sky. If the Olympics are not important and of interest to New Zealanders then nothing is. TVNZ has missed out, again, to its biggest long-term rival.

Actually, TVNZ is having a tough time with Sky on several fronts and the future of its business is looking sicker because of it.

The London Olympics coincides with a key date in the evolution of local television announced last week by Broadcasting Minister Trevor Mallard. That is the year when the Government wants to announce when it will switch off analogue transmission and make everyone use a digital set-top box such as Freeview or Sky.


The turn-off date will come six to 10 years after then or be set at a trigger point when 75 per cent of New Zealand households are using the boxes.
Mallard cheerily says that 75 per cent figure might not be too hard to achieve as already 45 per cent of Kiwi homes have digital television. There he is wrong. The overwhelming majority of those boxes belong to Sky. It will be an uphill struggle to reach it by relying on Freeview to rope in the rest of us.

Judging by current progress with the anorexic Freeview, New Zealanders are unlikely to flock to the new free-to-air system.

There are around 1.5 million households in this country. Currently, just over 60,000 Freeview boxes have been sold and it is not clear how many homes might have two or three around the house, making it almost impossible to figure out what overall percentage of homes have swapped to digital.

Also, how many Sky homes also have a Freeview box because the viewer is addicted (God help them) to Parliament TV, or really wants to watch Kidzone or Triangle TV?

Simply offering people what they already get on telly, plus a few channels full of re-runs and surplus programming from output deals will not be enough to convince folk to hurry and spend hundreds of dollars on a box, aerial and installation for Freeview when they can wait another decade or more and not spend a single cent.


Offering high-definition TV will bring in a few people but then Sky is planning its own HD service.

People will outlay money for big mainstream sports coverage, movie packages and porn. Sky has that sewn up (although Sky executives always shudder when you mention the pay-per-view porn channels).

TVNZ is also on the back foot over an amendment to copyright laws going through Parliament. Sky has convinced the select committee concerned that it should have the right to rebroadcast free-to-air channels, like TVNZ's, for nothing.

TVNZ and other free-to-air broadcasters argue they want to be able to charge Sky for being retransmitted on the Sky platform. Currently, TVNZ has a deal that lets Sky transmit TV One and TV2 but that runs out in 2011.

TVNZ would like to set a high price on its rebroadcast rights and is desperately lobbying Parliament to let it do that.

The problem is, viewers may well be the losers. If TVNZ succeeds and sets an extortionate price on its channels, Sky may drop them. That could be good news for Freeview because many of us might then buy a box so as to still get TVNZ.

In fact, TVNZ might deliberately put a huge price on its channels so as to deny Sky its signal, thinking that this will hurt its rival and boost its Freeview system.

The trouble is, many of us may not rush off to Freeview as a result.

We might stay with Sky and decide to be TVNZ-free. How often do you hear the complaint that there is not a lot to watch on TV One or TV2 any more?

Sky's war chest is such that it could buy the "first run" rights to popular international shows, dramatically increasing its pull on TVNZ audiences and leaving the state broadcaster with the dregs of foreign programmes.

If this is handled badly we could end up with two parallel digital platforms, each running its own exclusive channels, with the audience roughly evenly divided between the two.

Does TVNZ really want to halve its audience? And do viewers really want only half of what is out there?

[sky_satt]

I would not be reading to much into what uncle Bill had to say, being an ex of
TVNZ he is bound to be a little if not a lot bias.

[nickrout]

So long as TVNZ broadcast free to air over DVB-S there is nothing they can do to stop anyone in range tuning to it, including a Sky box. There is no need to retansmit, you just tune in!

[sky_satt]

In respect of a sky box tunning in, with consent of other broadcasters this has been so...BUT sky can not have the cake an eat it as well, so to speak.. I Think some including uncle Bill forget PRIME TV/SKY Owned...Shouldn't that be FTA on DVB-S or are we all going to say poor sky all the TIME..What about the DVB-S Free to Air Viewer!! an No I refer not to the sky box fta of PRIME on DVB-S I refer to Free to All.

[Tony Dunnett]

Quite so , and we are going to be deomonstrating exactly that to the media at 4.30 today.
by that i mean Freeview and Orcsat on the SuPa TeNNa and on the Orcsat mark 3 receiver. That is the problem with FTa transmissions you can not restrict by what means they are viewed on, perhaps they should have looked at soft encryption so that boni fidi boxes only would work.

[nickrout]

Firstly sky_satt could you please speak English

Second Tony Dunnett the whole idea of Freeview is that anyone can receive it, including through a Sky box. Nothing would piss me off more than Freeview encrypting their signal so that only crap allowed boxes can receive it. I have a reasonable amount of money invested in my PVR, including 2 skystar cards. IMHO it is not a problem of FTA, it is a blessing!

[sky_satt]

OK lets speak English,

The sky box has been allowed with the consent of certain broadcasters to view some fta channels that are on freeview.

So far that does not include TVNZ 6 or ( to be) TVNZ 7 unless agreements are reached with the parties.

The issue is sky is a pay platform, the question is raised why should sky benefit from TVNZ 6 or TVNZ 7 financially via its subscribers, when the channels are free to air, meaning someone will need to pay somewhere, sky is not in business to offer things for free.

Prime TV is an example, sky purchased this as a Free to Air Channel, yet it hides under an encryption.

Why do you think the reason for keeping Prime TV encrypted is for ? would it be for the $$$$$$$ it certainly is not for free meaning true free to air to the public of NZ

If an Individual would like Prime TV via DVB-S it may be obtained but one must have a sky decoder for this one channel, that is not defended as a free to air service available to all with a DVB-S mpeg2 compliant receiver as like Freeview - true fta.

TDs, Super tenna is technology based, as is the moteck, multi lnb set-up. there is here a difference to that of skys.

The thought of encryption is one of hypothetical nicrout, do you really think that would happen as there are 60,000 + fta units out there now an climbing every day with an analogue switch off 2012 ?

[Tony Dunnett]

FREE VIEW will not encrypt they have no desire to , i was simply stating that if you wish to stop people from using your FTA transmission , that is DVB and can be received on any DVB receiver you have to look else where and to other methods to stop them.

As this is an open forum i am quite with in my rights to voice my opinion on this topic , and like wise so are you, i too have more than a reasonable amount of $$$$$ tied up in such equipment.

[Tony Dunnett]

Nice reply mate.

[nickrout]

I am not saying you shouldn't voice your opinion, far from it. I just don't see why you would want to stop someone "using" your FTA transmission. Does it matter to the freeview consortium if I watch their programming through a sky box or through a home made PVR or through a highly modified 1950's radiogram?

Oh and by the way I don't like Sky's attitude over Prime.

[sky_satt]

I just don't see why you would want to stop someone "using" your FTA transmission. Does it matter to the freeview consortium if I watch their programming through a sky box

The fta Transmission is not an issue of stopping the General Public under Free to Air Freeview to view, anyone as you have may purchase an fta box - PVR an view at your leisure, what is at issue as mentioned above, sky a pay provider should not be able to benefit out of freeview..free to air broadcasts for financial gain at the expense of the tax payer in which TVNZ 6 -7 are tax payer funded, in that issue yes exception is taken against viewing these via the sky box unless the necessary consents have been provided by the holder of these channels.

[herbie_g]

The fta Transmission is not an issue of stopping the General Public under Free to Air Freeview to view, anyone as you have may purchase an fta box - PVR an view at your leisure, what is at issue as mentioned above, sky a pay provider should not be able to benefit out of freeview..free to air broadcasts for financial gain at the expense of the tax payer in which TVNZ 6 -7 are tax payer funded, in that issue yes exception is taken against viewing these via the sky box unless the necessary consents have been provided by the holder of these channels.

Not forgetting that Freeview was launched in part by the govt concerned that eventually Murdoch's Sky maybe the only way of viewing TV in the future. Ironically, our gutless polly's are now considering legislation allowing Sky to use any free-to-air programming from within NZ on their platform - completely free of charge to them!

[nickrout]

I suppose you maintain that Sky benefits because people can use them as a one stop shop for both pay and free to air TV?

However I would have thought that the more people who can get a channel, the higher the ratings and the higher the advertising revenue - and thats not a benefit to Sky, its a benefit to the broadcaster that Sky tune their box to. In fact you could say Sky are doing the broadcaster a favour, they are providing access via the sky box to a whole lot of people who do not have a freeview box.

Don't get me wrong, I don't like Sky much, I am pissed about not having Prime FTA and I'd like to see people disconnecting their sky boxes and giving freeview a real go (and thanks to Sky for the use of your dish by the way). However I think the benefits of Freeview being completely FTA with no encryption firmly outweigh the disadvantages of Sky boxes also being able to tune in.

[herbie_g]

I think there should be an amicable response from both parties on this one. A trade off, if you will.

Freeview wants Prime, Sky wants TVNZ6. Fine. Sky unencrypt Prime via DTH and TVNZ allow access to TVNZ6 to Sky. Deal done, without polly intervention.

Then, when TVNZ7 starts, the process is repeated if Sky wants it. This time, TVNZ should choose which of the Sky channels should go free. I pick Sky Sport 1!

[sky_satt]

Nicrout sky indeed benefits in its basic package for the free to air channels.
Freeview as you know has no ongoing charges, except the first set-up cost, therein after it is free, here lies the choice, an agreement would need to be reached to carry, it is not simply there for the taking by sky as a pay provider, the need of freeview is to provide independence as herbie_g has expressed.

As you know the Free to Air Viewers are calling the same from Prime TV why is this not free to air ?, why must we pay to see via an encryption card ?
Would you not think it would be beneficial for Prime TV to be fta on satellite to reach all NZ for the advertising dollar ?, the answer would be NO sky would make more return from Prime to keep it under NDS encryption otherwise it would have made Prime Fta from the onset.

[sky_satt]

I think there should be an amicable response from both parties on this one. A trade off, if you will.

Freeview wants Prime, Sky wants TVNZ6. Fine. Sky unencrypt Prime via DTH and TVNZ allow access to TVNZ6 to Sky. Deal done, without polly intervention.

Then, when TVNZ7 starts, the process is repeated if Sky wants it. This time, TVNZ should choose which of the Sky channels should go free. I pick Sky Sport 1!

Herbie_g Now that seems sensible an fair :), What do you think sky would say ? my odds would be with a big YES its a go, that would keep nicrout happy an all the true free to air viewers calling for Prime anothers, I am in full agreement.

[krs]

A couple of points.

Isn't Prime FTA via UHF over most of the country?
Don't Sky also offer Prime via satellite fta (albeit via their decoder) for a set install fee?

[sky_satt]

UHF Does not reach all within the country, Satellite is what is referred to, an NDS encryption of Prime does not qualify as fta in one having to have a sky decoder if one only wants that one channel, fta is free to all with an mpeg2 sat receiver the same as freeview is available to all.

[krs]

I'm not a fan of sky either only of the sport they broadcast!!

But if they install a dish and decoder for $150 so you can get prime FTA isn't that a good deal?

[sky_satt]

Short an Long, " No" That is not Free to Air the question would need to be asked why encrypt a Free to Air channel ?, remove the NDS from Prime an then an only then would that be a good deal to all NZ.

I have no bone of contention in relation to sky, sky have placed digital on the map an have their place as a pay provider, but fair play is required if you wish to enter the Free to Air Market you must do so accordingly as a free to air broadcaster as PRIME TV, not to be hidden under a cloak of NDS

[bartender]

I'm not a fan of sky either only of the sport they broadcast!!

But if they install a dish and decoder for $150 so you can get prime FTA isn't that a good deal?

You have to be unable to get Prime over UHF to qualify for the one time dish/decoder install. Plus I don't know if Sky give you the other FTA channels (1-4) on the same plan or not. Sky doesn't encrypt TV 1&2 on their TP, but they do encrypt 3,4 and of course Prime.

http://www.sky.co.nz/2006-media-releases.aspx?KbId=203&art_id=2571

[wiilliiss]

anything more than prime is charged for.

[nickrout]

Frankly it would be great if the freeview consortium got some really good programming together so that people could make a conscious decision to drop sky.

I don't get Prime UHF, and I don't really want a Sky STB just to get Prime. Shame Sky were allowed to buy it really.

[krs]

Sounds like there's a bit of a void there then for a quality channel.
Any takers?

[richms]

I am of the opinion that sky should be charging freeview for allowing their boxes to receive the transmissions, not the other way around. Sky have the asset which freeview want, so they should be paid for delivering eyeballs to freeview, not the other way around.

[openmedia]

I am of the opinion that sky should be charging freeview for allowing their boxes to receive the transmissions, not the other way around. Sky have the asset which freeview want, so they should be paid for delivering eyeballs to freeview, not the other way around.

So you want the NZ Government should pay a commercial company to carry FTA channels.

1. More than 50% of the TV watched by Sky customers is the FTA channels.

2. In most other markets Pay TV companies like Sky have to contribute if they want to carry the general FTA services.

TVNZ and TVWorks have assets that Sky wants, not the other way around.

Steve

[richms]

So you want the NZ Government should pay a commercial company to carry FTA channels.

1. More than 50% of the TV watched by Sky customers is the FTA channels.

2. In most other markets Pay TV companies like Sky have to contribute if they want to carry the general FTA services.

TVNZ and TVWorks have assets that Sky wants, not the other way around.

Steve

Yes, just as they have to pay to have a FTA transmitter network nowdays, other stations have to pay to be on skys boxes, why should those ones be any different to ones like alt tv and the arts channel.

Its a bit different for tvnz 6 and parliament since they have no paying customers to keep happy, but 1/2/3/4 all have customers that would be prepared to pay more for the advertising if there are more screens that it is available on, so to also expect sky to pay to provide the path to eyeballs is just cheek IMO - at worst it should be free, there is no way that sky should have to pay to deliver viewers and in turn increse the rates that tvnz and tvworks can charge their clients.

[sky_satt]

richms, openmedia is correct, try this remove TV1,TV2,TV3,C4 from the sky line-up an see how many will abandon sky for freeview..believe you me it will be a great number!

[Injuised]

I am of the opinion that sky should be charging freeview for allowing their boxes to receive the transmissions, not the other way around. Sky have the asset which freeview want, so they should be paid for delivering eyeballs to freeview, not the other way around.

So can I borrow your car, house, wife, etc. And ill charge you for allowing me to use them. Because I have an asset that they want.

[richms]

So can I borrow your car, house, wife, etc. And ill charge you for allowing me to use them. Because I have an asset that they want.

That is so weak I dont think it would even be an analogy!

More to the point, sky is like a bus company, it brings consumers to an attraction, which generates value for that attraction. So what you are proposing is that the bus company should be charged for being allowed to take people to the casino or similar

[richms]

richms, openmedia is correct, try this remove TV1,TV2,TV3,C4 from the sky line-up an see how many will abandon sky for freeview..believe you me it will be a great number!

That just shows how weak the rest of skys lineup is really.

We figured that the money spent on sky was better spent on internet at $1/gig on getting entertainment "other ways" when we got rid of it.

The fact is, if having those channels there is important for sky, the best case would be to figure out how much value is exchanged each way and then compensation can flow appropriately. I feel that it will be more value going from sky to the FTA broadcasters then the other way. but without some decent measurement to simply say that sky should have to pay to have those channels there is crazy.

All is different for tvnz6 and parliament, and since the govt is paying for them they should take all steps possible to make sure it is visible to all taxpayers since thats the only way to get value from it. If that means they have to pay sky to get tvnz6 on all the boxes and instantly increase their viewership for this channel that they think is so important then they owe it to the taxpayers to do so, not bicker about if they should even allow sky to have it on it or not.

[sky_satt]

Parliament TV is not at issue an is readily available by consent on a sky platform, what would be at issue is TVNZ6 an the future TVNZ7 as expressed consent would need to be provided to be carried on platform TV1,2 are not at issue at this stage due to contracts entered a number of years ago which are set for expiration within a few years.

[bab]

I encourage everyone I can who has to receive prime by sat to get a $145 sat install from them as a way to get a dish installed at a subsidised rate ,get prime and then hang a fta box to it for freeview.

[bartender]

I encourage everyone I can who has to receive prime by sat to get a $145 sat install from them as a way to get a dish installed at a subsidised rate ,get prime and then hang a fta box to it for freeview.

I just wished I could do that in Wellington, however I have LOS to KauKau so I only need a 1 meter piece of wire out the back of my TV to get a good picture of the FTA channels.... Prime does (sometimes) have good stuff on it (Dr Who), and getting a professionally installed dish with dual LNB for $150 and Prime is a good price IMHO. But it makes complete sense that Sky only do the Sat installs where customers can prove they can't get Prime off UHF, who wants to hand out a stack of sub cards & boxes with no sign of return + have to manage the sub cards for ever and a day.

If you could get prime only sub cards + boxes you could have a good deal going on Trademe as I would get one :)